Take your first look at £10m college planned for Scunthorpe town centre

“@jamesdcairns,

Unfortunately your attempts to rubbish my arguments only go to show how limited your own experience is.

For starters whilst you may think I am parochial I am in fact not a S****honian although I have lived here for some time. In fact for many years I ran a successful business which traded in all parts of UK and was also employed by a number of employers' organisations.

Your comments about the Club 2000 site, whilst accurate in terms of description of its state, only serve to show that you don't have a clue about regeneration and the sound arguments that exist for bringing such a site in a potential development area into public ownership.

You shoot yourself in the foot yet again with your facile comments about retail. You really don't know what you are talking about. It is NOT the responsibility of a local authority to take the initiative in such developments. They are purely private ventures, hence my suggestion that a commercial entrepreneur extraordinaire such as your good self should show us how to do it. Unfortunately you have (probably sensibly) declined the challenge.

Lord Sugar's alleged comment which you quote just go to show that the managers he seeks are risk taking entrepreneurs. From the little I have seen of the entertainment he provides for some on TV I would say that I would not want to see any of the people he chooses anywhere near a local authority management position. Local authority managers are basically, and rightly, motivated by risk avoidance in providing those public service they have a statutory obligation to provide, not maximise profits. You seem not to understand the difference.

I'm glad you were amused by my (accurate) comments about council managers, perhaps you would let us know just how many in how many authorities you deal with professionally.

If any one has missed the point it is you - largely because you don't seem to know what you are talking about, be it regeneration, retail or the differences in management style required in private enterprise and local government.

Have a good weekend!”

“Scunnymike – spoken like a true parochial - closed minded indeed!

Let's break his comments down…

'he is misinformed if he thinks it was NLC money bought Club 2000; as I recall the cash came from Yorkshire Forward'
– either way, this was public money whichever way you slice it!

'I would have thought that as a businessman he would understand the reasons for buying such a site in an area earmarked for development'
– The site was closed and practically derelict for years, as are many sites in Scunthorpe. Those who were involved in this 'deal' didn't have any plans for this site when this piece was concluded.

'He then gives a little homily about Scunthorpe needing 'a shopping mall'
– very condescending man, and thanks for thrilling us with your acumen! Practically everyone I know hates shopping in Scunthorpe, and chooses to travels out to the afore mentioned veritable oasis of retail in comparison to the unappealing dump known as Scunthorpe high street, or its poorly planned/structured outlaying retail parks! I personally do not have the means nor the inclination to improve the town of Scunthorpe – my point being, the local council should take the initiative, as per Lincoln, Doncaster et al, and develop a sustainable, attractive environment for consumer shopping, which in turn would generate wealth and regeneration within the town! This should have been base one prior to any of the 'white-elephant' projects that have been developed, or are currently being planned for development!

'his suggestion that councils should be run by businesspeople has a hollow ring'
- maybe in your opinion, however private sector business people, have a greater understanding about the makro and micro business environments that we all operate in. As Alan Sugar once quoted – I would never hire a public sector senior manager to run any of my companies!

'Over the years I have worked with (but never for) a lot of councils throughout UK and can say that the majority of officers are intelligent, responsible people' - this comment really made me laugh out loud
– maybe Scunnymike does have a terrific sense of humour after all – maybe he works for a Quango???

Talk about missing the point on a monumental scale!”

“As my comments were removed it seems like my comments hit a nerve, people always say that the truth hurts!!”

“I think the salient point Scunnymike is that private businesses risk their own capital and success is defined by profit or otherwise, not how much money they can ream from the taxpayer. This is important, because it is via the market signals of profit and loss society makes its decisions regarding the allocation of valuable resources. When government divert resources from the private sector into what they "think" we need, thus attempting to replace market decisions with central planning, this leads to distortions in the economy and a proliferation of value subtractive activity.
Comet, Woolworths and others may have made bad decisions, but it is worth considering why those concerned viewed those decisions as viable. In an economy overheated by excessive credit expansion deliberately created by government and central bank monetary policy, the retail sector reacted to the false market signals thus created, and in the belief that people possessed far more disposable income than was the case, geared up their operations accordingly. Now the bubble has burst, those malinvestments are exposed.
I therefore do not believe this "college" or whatever it may be, will revive the town centre because the free market isn't building it, central planners are. Politicians promising to turn barely literate problem children into software engineers and renewable energy experts deserves to be viewed with sceptisim.
Re club 2000, whatever body acted as the conduit for funds, ultimately the money came from the taxpayer. No one can seriously argue that buying club 2000 provided any value for the taxpayer.”

“There seem to be a a lot of misconceptions floating around in these comments.

jamesdcairns is misinformed if he thinks it was NLC money bought Club 2000; as I recall the cash came from Yorkshire Forward. I would have thought that as a businessman he would understand the reasons for buying such a site in an area earmarked for development. If he has any evidence of public servants 'benefitting' from the transaction perhaps he would care to pass it to the appropriate authorities rather than making unfounded blanket allegations here. He then gives a little homily about Scunthorpe needing 'a shopping mall', well if he's such a good businessman as he thinks there is no reason for him not to establish one himself and see how much money he can make out of it. Rather the comment shows his own lack of grasp of commercial reality so his suggestion that councils should be run by businesspeople has a hollow ring. What sort of entrepreneurs is he thinking of? The one who started the highly successful Club 2000 at the wrong end of town? Or perhaps he was thinking bigger and hoping to get people like those who have steered Woolworths, Comet and TJ Hughes to such success. Over the years I have worked with (but never for) a lot of councils throughout UK and can say that the majority of officers are intelligent, responsible people. Councillors (of whatever political hue) are by and large a different matter though.

JohnJohn2011 and englander61 are living in the past and their views that old employment and training patterns (when I left school at whatever age and spent six years sweeping up) are as irrelevant today as they were in the 1980s when a lot of others had the same views. True there is a debate to be held over whether training costs should be funded by employers (by means of higher prices) or the state (via higher taxes), but the days of huge employers with extensive training centres have long gone and a town needs a pool of skilled, flexible labour if it is to thrive economically. Having said that the way we have increased the number of places at so-called universities to churn out people with Mickey Mouse degrees is ridiculous and serve no useful purpose to anyone. (On a point of history: Income Tax wasn't set up to help the needy, it was to get the spondoolicks to fight Napoleon).

Our foxy friend who started this thread off talks a lot of sense though. This "University Technical College" is not likely to be a great asset to the town centre. When it was first announced comments were made that "students" would be able to get remedial help with numeracy and literacy so it is far from likely to be a seat of learning and culture.”

“I can only describe the actions of this council as clueless and commercially inept on a grand scale! Those 'responsible' for 'running' this council, and I use those words carefully, wouldn't last five minutes in the real world also known as private industry.
Their actions are practically criminal in regards to how public money has been squandered on countless 'white elephant' projects, such as the Baths Hall, The Pods, the market, etc. etc.
The way that Club 2000 was bought by the council from John Hayes, subsequently closed, then demolished, beggars belief, and I wonder how many public 'servants' benefited from that piece of business? I wonder how frightening for these people it would be, if they were investigated by HMRC – panic stricken I should imagine???
Anyone in private industry with such fiduciary responsibility, making such financial blunders, would be accountable and subsequently fired for gross misconduct by their organisation! This is the case in point entirely – no regard for public money, no regard for how it is 'invested', and no accountability!
Ultimately, what this town needs beyond anything else is a solid commercial base – a shopping mall or equivalent, that would clearly negate the need for the majority of the town's population to conduct their commercial dealings in Hull, Lincoln, Doncaster, Sheffield, and even Grimsby, tius improving the prosperity of the entire local community!
Yes, the way Scunthorpe is managed by these people is a seriously sorry state of affairs. As a businessman myself, I would strongly recommend that the Government looks at how local Government is run, and involves leaders from the private sector to sense check spending!
Clearly and sadly, will this never happen!”

“Englander61

I think you are possibly correct on that one; however they are entitled to their opinion as at the moment it is still a free country. However if they are so blinkered as to see what is happening around them in this town / country and world it is their problem, they should look at the other story relating to hungry people in Scunthorpe having to be fed by charity to see what is happening. Briefly though I will say again, how did we build all our industrial base over the last sixty odd years before the best bits were sold off when we had less than a quarter of the universities / colleges and training centres that we now have today. When I started work I was able to use a grinder and industrial lathe etc when I was 16 /17 years old lad and when my work mate had time he instructed me on the basics of welding. When you were a lad you were given the dirty / hot and cramped jobs until your work mate thought you were good enough to do the important bits. What we have today is thousands spent on courses for this and that only for most of it to be no use in real life situations.”

“THEY CLOSED MY CLUB BUT I SHALL RISE FROM THE FLAMES LIKE A PHOENIX. I SHALL SOON BE ABLE TO ADDRESS MY PLEBS FROM "BEDLAM TOWERS", MY NEW PALACE, AND BEST OF ALL THE PLEBS WILL BE PAYING FOR IT! I QUITE FANCY A SECRET UNDERGROUND CAR PARK AND HAIR SALON. GET ME THE ARCHITECT NOW!!

I AM THE SUPREME COMMANDER OF NORTH LINCOLNSHIRE! TONIGHT A DUMP, TOMORROW THE WORLD!! MWAHAHAHAHA”

“JohnJohn2011 , Totally agree think all the education department must have been shooting little red arrows at you , Your comments would have been better added after four thirty , LOL .”

“Still no toilets in that part of town only the modern smelly never working ones , Council can not afford to build any , No wonder town is dying .solar powered litter bins bus lane to no ware , cycle bridge that's hardly used except by stone throwing yobs . Traffic problems getting worse . Why is are town getting no better and others have sorted themselves out on lower budgets .”